Aqualifestyle-france
Hello everybody
Welcome to the forum aqualifestyle-France,
To share with aquarists the world, we have created an English section.
"Click here"


*****

Bonjour, soyez le bienvenue sur aqualifestyle-france.
aqualifestyle-france c'est quoi? "C'est un forum différent des autres"

Nous avons pour principe une règle d'or qui a était créé pour que la communication fonctionne.
- "Je ne critique pas, je donne mon avis et surtout j'explique pourquoi."

Nous œuvrons sur ce forum pour vous aider et bien entendu pour le bien de vos animaux, car nous sommes avant tout des aquariophiles responsables qui aiment les animaux.

Nous avons un regard neuf sur l'aquariophilie car nous prenons du recul en partageant et regardant au delà des frontières.
Notre objectif et de vous faire découvrir le vrai sens de l'aquariophilie, vous allez découvrir un monde différent.

Alors si vous voulez découvrir le vrai sens de cette passion, rejoignez nous.

Petit rappel : le forum fonctionne surtout avec firefox et google chrome
Internet explorer présente certains bugs.

Partagez
Aller en bas
Webmaster
Webmaster
Administrateur
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
Nombre de messages : 5508

Liste de Maintenance
Mise à jour ::
http://www.aqualifestyle-france.com

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons

le 2011-07-23, 11:48 pm
Réputation du message : 50% (2 votes)
For this information protocol to be effective on one species:

- I need to know if the species is wild or farmed.


Farmed (indonesia, South America)

- I need to know if the habitat is endangered and by who or what.

lot of constraints factor, such as reducing the water level of rivers, pollution, dams upstream and downstream of the rivers ...

Many parameters and no information of any of its habitat is in danger.

If you know of information that prove that fish habitat is in great danger, thank you for giving us the information.


- Know whether the species is endangered in its habitat

http://www.proteger.org.ar/peces-cuenca-plata/especies/apteronotus-albifrons/

- Know whether the sale of the species put at risk the repopulation of it in its natural environment.

Waiting for answers.

- I need to know the parameters of the natural environment or the species was collected.
Waiting for answers.


- Know whether the wild fish are wild from the wild or farmed wild or raised in cages in nets.

Waiting for answers.


- I need to know the parameters of the rearing environment or holding of the species.
between 6.5 and 7.5 pH - 26 ° C and 6 - 6,8 pH breeding (farming indonesia)

- Observed if mortality is too high in aquarium.

Many topics about the death of apteronotus albifrons are visible on the internet, lack of oxygen, stifling a food not suitable for food ...

Now we do not know the age of the fish aquarium.
If you have any experience with this fish you can help.

thank you


- I need to know the growth rate of the species.

I know the growth rate of the alevin to the size of sale. (information farming Indonesia)

1 week = 2.34 cm

2 weeks = 3.46 cm

3 weeks = 4.98 cm

4 weeks = 6, 1 cm (the size of store sales)

Comment of subrosa member of forum http://www.aquariacentral.com "Anecdotally I raised one from 2.5" to 14" in 16 months."

- Observed whether the species develops signs of dwarfism in aquariums.

Waiting for answers.


If you know of information on the Apteronotus albifrons, thank you for helping us to complete the protocol information.
Heiko Bleher
Heiko Bleher
aquarists of world
Date d'inscription : 05/12/2010
Nombre de messages : 8

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Ref. Protocol - answer and suggestions from Heiko Bleher

le 2011-07-24, 11:20 pm
Réputation du message : 100% (2 votes)
Hi Guys and Laurent,

I will write in English as it goes much faster, and also I have very
little time, preparing for new expeditions (6), starting August 6th, and 5
international fairs and exhibitions (September-Dezember), 22 lectures and
seminars in 8 countries around the globe, judging fishes and aquascape in 4
competitions, and writing another 20 articles as well as the new DISCUS BOOK 02
and Bleher's Biotopes - what else?

*****************************************************************************************


As for your Protocol I have a few very important suggestions and Laurent
translate those please: I will write in black below the orange.

I hope it gets for you all to see:

I need to know if the species is wild or farmed.

Farmed (indonesia, South America)


Species are farmed/cultivated/bred (over 95 % of all of todays's aquarium fishes come from breediing establishments, less then 5% from collected in the nature) in all of Europe – more or less – being mainly Czech Republic, Germany,
Russia, Holland, Poland, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, Spain, and less in others, but I know also many in France.

They are bred in Asia, mainly Indonesia, China, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, India, Vietnam, Singapore, HongKong, and less in others.

In North a America gigantic (the largest of all) fish farms are in Florida - in the Tampa area alone over 5 Million tank bred fishes are shipped out weekly.

In Brazil they breed many fishes (but not exported,only sold within Brazil), and most of the other other South American countries (see Bleher's Discus volume 2).

So for the above question: I would like to know WHO will know, and/or be able to define if a fish he has is farmed or wild collected?

I think you are asking an almost impossible question here - at least for aquarists/hobbyists.
I am almost certain no one will be able to see the difference.

- I need to know if the habitat is endangered and by who or what.

lot of constraints factor, such as reducing the water level of rivers, pollution, dams upstream and downstream of the rivers ...


Many parameters and no information of any of its habitat is in danger.


For this question I think it is even more though IMPOSSIBLE for almost anyone to know.

I think very few of all aquarists/hobbyists and even less the importers/wholesalers/pet shops owners or managers will know which habitat the species comes from, and much less if that is endangered.

You are asking something impossible, people can only try to guess.

How can anyone without having researched the area and collected himself be able to know this or any of you additional requests?

The most one might have is the value of a water parameter, but then again those vary extremely between low and high water season.

And yes, one can know if a dam is build, has been built or will be build, but that is almost all one can know (from the media).

If you know of information that prove
that fish habitat is in great danger, thank you for giving us the information.


- Know whether the species is endangered
in its habitat

http://www.proteger.org.ar/peces-cuenca-plata/especies/apteronotus-albifrons/



99% of the reports of the IUCN are inaccurate or missing it all together (are just guesses), as they never ask the people (with one single exception I know of from all living ichthyologists and taxonomists) which are in the field.
Typical with A. albifrons you point out.

And I am referring to freshwater species.

How can you as on such a forum people these questions?

Everyone can only guess. m(But you can always question me and I answer once I have time - only
fresh- and brackish water species).

- Know whether the sale of the species put at risk the repopulation of it in its natural environment.

Waiting for answers.

This is another sorry to say, stupid, question.

How can any aquarist/shop owner know this?

I just visited Fisheries in Indonesia and Philippines in May, and not even anyone of those working in the departments of their country for decades know it!?

I had to show them ...

- I need to know the parameters of the natural environment or the species was collected.

Waiting for answers.

Only if one went to the collecting site can know it.
- Know whether the wild fish are wild from the wild or farmed wild or riased in cages in nets.

Waiting for answers.

See above

- I need to know the parameters of the rearing environment or holding of the species.
between 6.5 and 7.5 pH - 26 ° C and 6 - 6,8 pH breeding (farming indonesia)



This you can find out, in my new book I published those of over 700 (discus) breeders from 50 countries.

Otherwise you MUST ASK THE SHIPPER from every single point of departure/origin, and also for every species, not just in general, because most exporters keep them according to where they come from.
- Observed if mortality is too high in aquarium.

Many topics about the death of Apteronotus albifrons are visible on the internet, lack of oxygen, stifling a food not suitable for food ...


The "high" mortality can only happen if the fishes are not bought/received from an reliable source -
the source of a fish is the (very) most important fact of all.

And secondly if not kept according to nature/natural habitat/breeders place end condition.


The big problem (unfortunately) is causing the internet as well, because almost everyone today thinks the answers are give in the world-wide web, which is far from it


Now we do not know the age of the fish aquarium.
If you have any experience with this fish you can help.

thank you

I don't know who can tell you the age, but I normally can, if I see the fish.


- I need to know the growth rate of the species.

I know the growth rate of the alevin to the size of sale. (information farming Indonesia)

1 week = 2.34 cm

2 weeks = 3.46 cm

3 weeks = 4.98 cm

4 weeks = 6, 1 cm (the size of store sales)


This seem to me impossible.

The grow rate depends on WHAT and HOW OFTEN DAILY you feed the growing up fishes.
Like in my new book, you can see some breeders feed little and other very much daily (besides quality) and one (former) has his fishes with 4 cm in 6 month and the other (the latter) has the same species in 6 month growth to 9 cm. (ie. Discus).

So how can you define a growth of a single species/breeder?

This is IMPOSSIBLE, and specially not as you write it here above. Maybe approximately it can be done, but then only by:


1. Breeders name


2. Species name


3. Food variety given


4. How many times daily.
-Observed whether the species develops signs of dwarfism in aquariums.

Waiting for answers.


A fish will show signs of Darwinism ONLY if not fed correctly and specially during its first month of growth.
If you know of information on the Apteronotus albifrons, thank you for helping us to complete the protocol information.


What information?


Think about this "Protocol" you want to elaborate very well, as in this form it is not acceptable and cannot work, nor can it give any correct information.

best regards


Heiko Bleher


www.aquapress-bleher.com

www.aqua-aquapress.com
tyrano34
tyrano34
Chercheur d'informations
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2009
Nombre de messages : 4558

Liste de Maintenance
Mise à jour :: 31/05/2013
http://aqualifestyle-world.forumactif.org/

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Re: Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons

le 2011-07-25, 5:27 pm
Thank you for your intervention Heiko Bleher.

I will answer your questions.

Heiko Bleher a écrit:I would like to know WHO will know, and/or be able to define if a fish he has is farmed or wild collected?

Of course, as major retailers do not send spies to verify if the fish and farmed, we can not verify if the information provided by the wholesaler are accurate.

I understand your reaction and your question.

Unfortunately, this information depends on the sincerity of the wholesaler.
After some species of fish we can see the differences between models of wild and farmed.

If I create the subject protocol is simply to determine if I have reason to speak of a species on the forum.

Heiko Bleher a écrit:How can anyone without having researched the area and collected himself be able to know this or any of you additional requests?


In principle, that is where the investigation of UICN are important.
But for me it's a track because my principle to seek of contacts with aquarists who are near the biotope and speak with an independent conservation organizations.

I would like to go there and analyzing the situation me even, but financially I can not do it.

I also try to have confirmation from scientific experts.
Breeders can also tell us if the habitat is in danger.

I am in contact with some breeders in the world and they agree to communicate on the status of the biotope.

For if the habitat is endangered, aquatic species are also endangered.
it is also in the interest of the breeders to communicate on the status of the biotope.

This way it also saves are buisnesses.

Heiko Bleher a écrit:How can you as on such a forum people these questions?


simply communication, used all my network and communicate with aquarists the world.

Heiko Bleher a écrit:

laurent a écrit:- Know whether the sale of the species put at risk the repopulation of it in its natural environment.

Waiting for answers.


This is another sorry to say, stupid, question.

How can any aquarist/shop owner know this?

I just visited Fisheries in Indonesia and Philippines in May, and not even anyone of those working in the departments of their country for decades know it!?

I had to show them ...

the aquarists who diving underwater in the habitat can see if the species and declining.
Same for breeders when he collect fish in natural environment they can see if the species starts to decrease.

Heiko Bleher a écrit:So how can you define a growth of a single species/breeder?

yes a very good idea, I actually started on this subject to ask questions on other forums in the world.


******************************************************************************************

I hope I have answered your questions, excuse me if my English is poor.
I know it's a very difficult project to implement, but I believe in human communication.

If I fail, I hope one day the next generation take over and this project will succeed.
Heiko Bleher
Heiko Bleher
aquarists of world
Date d'inscription : 05/12/2010
Nombre de messages : 8

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Protocol Final suggestions from Heiko Bleher

le 2011-07-25, 10:59 pm
Réputation du message : 100% (1 vote)
Dear Laurent,

I still would like to point out a few points which I think you are missing or you do not know (and cannot know):

tyrano34 a écrit:
Of course, as major retailers do not send spies to
verify if the fish and farmed, we can not verify if the information provided by
the wholesaler are accurate.

I understand your reaction and your question.

Unfortunately, this information depends on the sincerity of the wholesaler.
After some species of fish we can see the differences between models of wild
and farmed.

If I create the subject protocol is simply to determine if I have reason to
speak of a species on the forum.

My answer/point is:

OK I very well understand your point, but:

1. You can almost NEVER verify if the information of your wholesaler/importer is accurate, simply because he does not know - except maybe 1 in 100 of the cases he does know it correctly.

Believe me, there are so many reasons why he does not/cannot/does not want to know.

And in addition if wild caught they will almost NEVER say where they were collected, the collector will NEVER say it, because he fears competition.


I can name you a few thousand website which ALL have wrong locations of their discus shown, because those are the locations given by the fishermen (completely wrong ones), to the exporter and on to your importer/wholesaler...


2. Why do you think (just to give one simple example with discus)
I wrote for decades on Amazonia, the genus Symphysodon, ist species and population?

MAINLY BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE LOCATION GIVEN IN PUBLICATIONS;
INTERNET, AND AT WHOLESALERS of the species, varieties/populations WERE (and those who do not want to read books still write the wrong locations -continuously) WRONG!

3. Even is your wholesaler is sincere (which I believe most of them are - exceptions are the rule) - HE CANNOT KNOW THE CORRECT LOCATION OR GIVE YOU THE CORRECT ANSWER (see 1.).



He/she even if they want to try to help, they cannot.

Unfortunately you do not know this business and you think black is black and white is white, but if you do so, you live in a dream-world.



Sorry but that is a fact, if you like it or not.


tyrano34 a écrit:

In principle, that is where the investigation of UICN are important.
But for me it's a track because my principle to seek of contacts with aquarists who are near the biotope and speak with an independent conservation organizations.

I would like to go there and analyzing the situation me even, but financially I can not do it.

I also try to have confirmation from scientific experts.
Breeders can also tell us if the habitat is in danger.

I am in contact with some breeders in the world and they agree to communicate on the status of the biotope.

For if the habitat is endangered, aquatic species are also endangered.
it is also in the interest of the breeders to communicate on the status of the biotope.

This way it also saves are businesses.


My answer/point was:

I explained the IUCN is very limited and my scientific editor of aqua (see www.aqua-aquapress.com) is constantly invited to IUCN meetings for fishes (this year already 4 times) and says to me all the time:



The people who know, are never invited, only names, for their social meetings
(the money of the sponsor has to be spend like with almost any organization that "wants to save this planet").



And those Doctors and Professors, which hardly ever did a single field work, decide what to place where on the list.



And as I explained there are less then a handful scientific experts which did or do field work. And 98% only in marine environment as it pays, freshwater does not pay ...



Yes you can contact those but will cover no more then 1% of the freshwater species known (and much less of the unknown). Almost no NGO cares (or knows) anything about freshwater fishes, and breeders usually never, as a breeder is not a collectors, he receives them from an importer, exporter, and maybe I know 5 around the globe which do some collecting, but even those rarely, once a year is most, in most cases only every few years ones...



If you really know one breeder who knows the habitat where his fishes come from, you are very, very, lucky.



Hold on to this one.


And do not forget: The status of a habitat must be checked several times in each year, otherwise how can he know anything?


tyrano34 a écrit:

simply communication, used all my network and communicate with aquarists the
world.

My answer: I will not write again, what I wrote already and I can see you did not understand it (or do not want to?).

My answer: I will scip this one, as you did not understand what I wrote. Sorry.

tyrano34 a écrit:

the aquarists who diving underwater in the habitat can see if the species and
declining.
Same for breeders when he collect fish in natural environment they can see if
the species starts to decrease.


My answer : NEVER in HISTORY THIS CAN HAPPEN. THE ONLY ONE COULD SEE IF FISHES ARE DECLINING IS IF HE/SHE LIVES ON THE SPOT ALL YEAR ROUND, AS FISHES (MOST OFTHEM) DO SPAWNING MIGRATIONS, and if not they are ANADROMOUS or CATADROMOUS species, HOW CAN ONE BY COMING TO A SINGLE PLACE MAYBE EVEN ONCE A YEAR KNOW, IF THEY ARE DECLINED OR NOT! THIS IS A DREAM, IF YOU THINK THIS CAN EVER HAPPEN.


Your English is quite good, and I understand that you want to do something good, but believe me,
this is an really Mission Impossible
.


I am in this all my live, it is my profession since I am 14 years old. I have visited over 175-country biotopes and habitats in those countries of fresh- and brackish waters and studied their populations – just completed my 863rd expedition – and would still not allow myself to be able to answer such questions you are asking. And although I know probably more about freshwater species and habitats then anyone else living (or dead), and I know the breeders, wholesalers, importers, collectors, keepers, pet shops around the world (also probably more then anyone else, as i is my work as well) I would not give you any definite answer.



I can tell you definitely this is and always will be a Mission Impossible. This protocol is deemed to be wrong from the very begin.

There are so many things you can do, why such?

This is only a good advice, the forum is yours and you can do what you want, but do not ask me anymore on this particular topic. A new one, always, but no Mission Impossible please.

Always


Heiko Bleher
Webmaster
Webmaster
Administrateur
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
Nombre de messages : 5508

Liste de Maintenance
Mise à jour ::
http://www.aqualifestyle-france.com

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Re: Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons

le 2011-07-26, 12:16 am
Thank you Heiko, the shock is violent but at the same time is good.



I begin to understand why this is mission impossible.
I will review the project, a remodel the topic, taking into account all your advice and opinions.


a single question:



We aquarists the world how can we be sure we do well to speak of a species is to maintain it?



I am lost in this world, since I share with the world, I do not know what position to take and all what you just told me wonder even more..

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons 225241



I do not know how you do it, to resist all that.

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons 393691
Heiko Bleher
Heiko Bleher
aquarists of world
Date d'inscription : 05/12/2010
Nombre de messages : 8

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Re: Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons

le 2011-07-29, 5:10 pm
Réputation du message : 100% (1 vote)
Dear Laurent,

very well said: " do not know how you do it, to resist all that" This is my main problem and fight - around the world. Just a few examples:

1. I offered Rainer Froese - fishbase.org - to correct all of his freshwater fish information and give him a correct photo of each species and update all the texts given by aquarists or layman.

I asked for just 10 Euro each species, he said he has no funds.... and I think you undersatnd that 10 euro is nothing for hours of text-correctyion-work and search for the photos and insert them. I cannot work totally for free as no one pays me - no one. I have to make my earning with writing, publishing, lectures and seminars to finance my many expeditions and may research around the world. No one sponsors me.

2. Many aquariste (and even scientists), think they know it all - even if only a few years with fishes. I do it all my live, and nothing else, and I would never - ever - allow myself to say "I know it all". What can I argue with such persons? and specially on the internet and in forums. Once I wrote for over 70 forums, now hardly, because when I want to teach and correct - help people and the hobby - all I get ins bad mouthing as they all know it better...because they know it all.

3. I had send to several forums corrections for their wrong species names and wrong information for keeping, as they just copied it from another forum, and so on. But they never did correct it (with only very few ones).

4. Some scientists describe new names for species, without anyone to check (not peer reviewed as we do with aqua for 18 years now), and I try to tell them that this species has already a name (just as now: Symphysodon aequifasciatus - the Green Discus - described by Pellegrin, the Frenchman in 1904, now has a scond name: S. tarzoo Lyons, 1959 ...) .

I am fighting on all fronts to have a correct inventorys of the freshwater species worldwide, for over 50 years now, and accumulated in this time information on 28,000 different forms (species, subspecies, variants and undescribed species). I still hope to publish this monster work one day, so far 3200 pages written and over 24,000 photps classified...

What else can I say?

Have a nice day.
Webmaster
Webmaster
Administrateur
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
Nombre de messages : 5508

Liste de Maintenance
Mise à jour ::
http://www.aqualifestyle-france.com

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Re: Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons

le 2011-07-30, 3:46 am
I eagerly await the release of your atlas.
::ok
Stardust
Stardust
aquarists of world
Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010
Nombre de messages : 157
http://www.porink.com

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Re: Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons

le 2012-01-09, 6:25 am
I just want to add some things that Heiko Bleher already given you..

Mainly in Indonesia, there's usually 2 types of saler.. The one who breed a fish, has a huge pond and sell their fish domestically or going abroad. And there's another one who usually catch their fish and not sell it domestically rather they sell it directly abroad.

The one who sell those fish by breeding captivity usually has a farm that noone can enter as it is a private property, usually, they have a little showroom in the countryside to keep their promoted fish.. So if you want to buy even a large quantity of fish, you will have to contact this person rather directly to the fish breeder as the fish breeders keep some kind of "secret" to breed their fish.. The "secret" is non other black plastic that torn like a broom for spawning fish like cyprinids and charachins, and sex hormone (testosteron and estrogen) for fish that usually hard to breed (e.g. some predatory fish).. In some ways, even if some local fish store in our area tend to sell some fish that deformed because the one that has top quality are already exported and the one that has deformed malfunction are sold in store like somekind of rejected items. (e.g. there's 1200 of a species of fish that has just spawned, 100 of them are deformed, and some buyer from another country like you bid for 1000 of fish, so 200 of fish including the deformed are sold in our local fish store)..

And for the saler which only catch their fish from nature, only accept their job if you order them a large quantity of fish (e.g. a couple of hundred or even thousand).. That's why a fish like your goby can't get any information from natives because it's like every Indonesian didn't even know there's a fish like that even exists. Like many comment in o-fish last time about your butini goby.. And if ever wild caught saler like this ever offers their fish to local fish store, they will charge each fish nearly the same price as it goes to your country minus the cargo price.. So that's why it costs so much and there's only a few who dare to buy them..

Ironically, some fishkeepers in Indonesia bought a fish from Singapore because Singapore has lot variety of fish, while the one that's in Singapore are bred in our lovely Indonesia.. Singapore are transited area in South East Asia, so in example if there's 200 fish remaining like I told you above, the top quality always going abroad, while maybe Indonesia just get the deformed one..

It's really a harsh world.. People like you who wants to save the enviromental must get information from people who breed fish and person like Heiko Bleher who's doing research on fish, but they won't make a move unless you give them money. Because it's their only salary to make a living.


-----------------------

Je veux juste ajouter quelques choses que Heiko Bleher a déjà mentionné ..

Principalement en Indonésie, il ya habituellement deux types de grossiste .. Celui qui reproduisent des poissons dans un vaste étang et par vendre leurs poissons dans le pays ou à l'étranger. Et il y en a un autre qui, habituellement, capture les poissons et ne les vendent pas dans leur pays, ils préfèrent les vendre directement à l'étranger.

Celui qui vendent ces poissons en élevage en captivité a généralement une ferme ou on ne peut entrer car c'est une propriété privée, généralement, ils ont une petit showroom dans la campagne pour garder leur poisson promus ..

Donc même , si vous voulez acheter une grande quantité de poissons, vous devrez communiquer avec cette personne (un intermédiaire) que plutôt de contacter directement l'éleveur de poissons car  les éleveurs de poissons gardent leur «secret» au sujet de la reproduction de leurs poissons ..

Le "secret" n'est pas un secret d'état (expression), pour la reproduction des poissons comme les cyprinidés et les charachins, c'est l'hormones sexuelles (testostérone et œstrogène) comme pour les poissons qui sont généralement difficiles à se reproduire (comme exemple certains poissons prédateurs) ..

À certains égards, même si certains magasins de poissons locaux dans notre zone ont tendance à vendre certains poissons qui sont déformés parce que celui qui a qualité supérieure sont déjà exportés et celui qui a déformé dysfonctionnement sont vendus en magasin comme protégé par une sorte d'articles rejetés. (Par exemple, il ya 1200 d'une espèce de poisson qui vient de pondre, 100 d'entre eux sont déformés, et certains acheteurs d'un autre pays comme vous offre pour 1000 des poissons, donc 200 de poissons comprennent la déformation sont vendus dans notre magasin local de poissons). .

Et pour le grossiste qui attraper leurs poissons dans la nature, accepter uniquement leur travail, si vous commandez entre eux une grande quantité de poissons (par exemple, un couple de centaines, voire milliers) .. C'est pourquoi un poisson comme votre gobies ne pouvez pas obtenir toutes les informations des indigènes parce que c'est comme tous les indonésiens ne savais même pas qu'il ya un poisson comme ça. Comme de nombreux commentaires dans les o-fish dernière fois au sujet de votre goby Butini .. Et si jamais sauvages Saler pris comme cela offre toujours leurs poissons pour stocker le poisson local, ils seront chargés chaque poisson près le même prix que cela va dans votre pays, moins le prix du fret .. Donc, c'est pourquoi il coûte si cher et il ya seulement quelques-uns qui osent les acheter ..

Ironiquement, certains aquariophiles en Indonésie a acheté un poisson de Singapour parce que Singapour a beaucoup de variété de poissons, tandis que celui qui est à Singapour sont élevés dans notre belle Indonésie .. Singapour sont transité zone en Asie du Sud Est, donc dans l'exemple s'il ya 200 poissons restants comme je vous l'ai dit plus haut, la qualité toujours aller à l'étranger, tandis que l'Indonésie peut simplement obtenir celle déformée ..

C'est vraiment un monde dur .. Des gens comme vous qui veut sauver l'environnement doivent se renseigner auprès des gens qui élèvent des poissons et personne comme Heiko Bleher qui fait des recherches sur les poissons, mais ils n'auront pas faire un geste, sauf si vous leur donner de l'argent. Parce que c'est leur seul salaire pour vivre.
Stardust
Stardust
aquarists of world
Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010
Nombre de messages : 157
http://www.porink.com

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Re: Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons

le 2012-02-22, 4:46 pm
BTW, have you read this?
http://o-fish.com/Spesies/BlackGhost.htm


English Translation a écrit:
Breeding

Black Ghost is one kind of fish which can be bred in aquarium. This fish is categorized as an egg layer.  The setup for breeding usually contains rock, Fern's branch, or ceramic tile as mediums to attach the black ghost's eggs..

The ratio of female and male are 2 : 1. Breeding also can be done with many of Black Ghost inside one tank, e.g. with 10 female and 5 male in one tank.  Male and female can be distinguised from distance between snout to operculum. Male tends to have longer distance rather than female.  Other than that, male in general tends to have slimer body rather than female who has rounder body...  The fish are ready to mate when their age reach 1 year or have reach about 15 cm length.

Aquarium setup usually get more darker lightning, this can be done with cover aquarium with some paper or else. The fertilisation happens at night. If the fertilisation are done, then in the morning, it is advised to immediately extract the medium where the eggs were attached to from the breeding tank into the hatchery tank to prevent the eggs being eaten by their parents. Produced eggs can reach up to 200 eggs per day..

The eggs normaly hatch after 3 days. in the 10th day after the hatch, the fry can be given artemia. In 14 -16th day, tubifex can be given. In about 2 months, the fry reach about 5 cm


Can be bred in aquariums means that it can be bred without using mud pond or pieces of plastic bags..
FYI, in Indonesia Mud pond usually uses when breed some fish like clarias batrachus, gold fish, koi carp, and other consumtive fish.. While pieces of plastic bag (plastic bag that torn like err... what's the name of the cheerleader's holding)for spawning fish like cyprinids(barb,rasbora,etc) and charachins..

Fern's branch is usually sold just like the one in picture but in rounder shape..
Spoiler:
Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons DriftingRiverLogTankRV14_5Custom
Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons 61565276
borrow this from panoramio.com
Well, that's just theory after all, never tried them by myself..

About 4-5years ago, black ghost has become a trend in ornamental fish trade.. Many beginners are told to keep the black ghost in such large size so they can be sold in high price (around 200,000-300,000 rupiahs) while the 5cm are regulary sold 5,000-10,000 rupiahs..

For me, Black ghost are one kind of fish that needs a lot of space and hiding place whereas they reguraly fights one another.. In the competition, some of them may get hurt (usually the tip of the tail get lost or in some common way died).. Of course all of fish needs oxygen, but in my study case of blackghost, they need dark area medium oxygenated, and almost with no other species in their tank..


-----------------------------------

BTW, avez-vous lu cela?
http://o-fish.com/Spesies/BlackGhost.htm

Traduction français a écrit:
Élevage

Black Ghost est un genre de poisson qui peuvent être élevés en aquarium. Ce poisson est classé comme une couche d'œufs. La configuration pour l'élevage contient généralement des rochers, des branches de fougère de java, ou de carreaux de céramique comme médium pour attacher les œufs du fantôme noir ..

Le ratio des femmes et des hommes sont de 2: 1. Elevage peut également être fait avec beaucoup de Ghost noir à l'intérieur d'un réservoir, par exemple, avec 10 femelles et mâles 5 dans un réservoir.

Mâle et femelle peuvent être distinguées à partir de la distance entre le museau à l'opercule. Homme a tendance à avoir plus de distance plutôt que la femelle. Autre que cela, de sexe masculin en général a tendance à avoir minceurs corps plutôt que de sexe féminin qui a arrondi le corps ... Les poissons sont prêts à s'accoupler lorsque leur âge atteindre 1 an ou ont atteint environ 15 cm de longueur.

Configuration Aquarium généralement obtenir la foudre plus sombre, ce qui peut être fait avec aquarium couvert avec du papier ou autre. La fécondation se produit dans la nuit. Si la fécondation se fait, puis dans la matinée, il est conseillé de mettre immédiatement en extraire le milieu où les œufs étaient attachés à partir de l'aquarium de reproduction dans le réservoir d'écloserie pour empêcher les oeufs d'être mangés par leurs parents. Œufs produits peut atteindre jusqu'à 200 œufs par jour ..

Les oeufs éclosent normalement au bout de 3 jours. dans le 10e jour après l'éclosion, les alevins peuvent manger les nauplies artémias. Dans 14-16e jour, des tubifex peuvent être donnée. Dans environ 2 mois, la portée alevins d'environ 5 cm

Peut-être élevés dans des aquariums signifie qu'il peut être reproduit sans l'aide étang de boue ou des morceaux de sacs en plastique ..
Pour info, dans l'étang de boue en Indonésie utilise généralement quand la race des poissons comme Clarias batrachus, poissons d'or, la carpe koï, et d'autres poissons de la consommation .. Alors que des morceaux de sac en plastique (sac en plastique qui déchire comme euh ... quel est le nom de la participation de la pom-pom girl de) pour les poissons de frai comme les cyprinidés (ardillon, rasbora, etc) et charachins ..

Fern branche est habituellement vendu tout comme celui sur la photo mais en forme plus ronde ..
Spoiler:
Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons DriftingRiverLogTankRV14_5Custom
Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons 61565276
borrow this from panoramio.com

Eh bien, c'est seulement de la théorie, après tout, ne jamais les faire juger par moi-même ..

À propos de 4-cinq années plus tôt, le fantôme noir est devenu une tendance dans le commerce des poissons d'ornement .. Beaucoup de débutants sont dit de garder le fantôme noir en grand format tels afin qu'ils puissent être vendus dans le prix élevé (autour de 200.000-300.000 roupies), tandis que les 5cm sont régulièrement vendus 5,000-10,000 roupies ..

Pour moi, le fantôme noir sont un type de poisson qui a besoin de beaucoup d'espace et de cachette alors qu'ils se bat reguraly un de l'autre .. Dans la compétition, certains d'entre eux peuvent se blesser (généralement le bout de la queue se perdre ou d'une certaine manière commune est mort) .. Bien sûr, tout le poisson a besoin d'oxygène, mais dans mon cas étude de blackghost, dont ils ont besoin à moyen zone sombre oxygénée, et presque avec aucune autre espèce dans leur réservoir ..
tyrano34
tyrano34
Chercheur d'informations
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2009
Nombre de messages : 4558

Liste de Maintenance
Mise à jour :: 31/05/2013
http://aqualifestyle-world.forumactif.org/

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Re: Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons

le 2013-07-26, 4:20 pm
Merci mon ami , je n'avais pas vue ta réponse, ce sujet est très intéressant.

Thank you my friend, I haven't seen your answer, your answer is very interesting


http://freshwater-gobies.actifforum.com/
Hello everyone, now I'm involved in a project to advance the care on the gobies. I continue to believe that sharing between the aquarist of world is possible.

A little support would be welcome.
friendship tyrano34
Contenu sponsorisé

Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons Empty Re: Protocol Information Apteronotus albifrons

Revenir en haut
Permission de ce forum:
Vous pouvez répondre aux sujets dans ce forum